Crunching Sounds: Mastering Auditory Processing with Rowan Nairn

Welcome to Neurosparkly. I'm Michelle, and I'm Dr. Misty, and we're two licensed therapists and sex therapists, and we're both neurodivergent and queer, and we're really passionate about exploring the intersectionality of these identities. We're really excited to have you join us here as we dive into meaningful conversations, share our own insights, and embrace our inner sparkle.

 Thank you all so much for joining us this week. We wanted to go and talk a little bit about auditory processing, which I actually didn't know a ton about. And then when I started to look into it, I was like, Oh man, I have so many of these things with my ADHD. My favorite one that I didn't even know was like a thing is I have a really hard time with certain accents and it makes me feel so bad, but I really have to concentrate super hard.

I'll have to ask people to repeat themselves so many times. And apparently that can be a form of auditory processing that's really common. And it makes me feel a little bit better that I'm not just like a jerk that can't understand different accents.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I tend to have I tend to have a similar kind of a thing where if I can't see people's mouths, if I'm just talking on the phone to somebody, I can't understand anything that people are saying whenever I'm talking on the phone with them.

It all sounds like jumble.

Wow. So interesting. Well, this week we really wanted to welcome Rowan to the podcast and they are a therapist here at Flow Arts. So thank you so much for joining us this week.

Absolutely. My pleasure. Happy to join.

I know that this is a topic that you are, uh, very knowledgeable and passionate about

do you want to tell us, some things that you're excited about and things that you know about with this topic?

Absolutely. So, I'm not really a strong advocator of auditory processing, uh, struggles, whether it's auditory processing disorder or just as a component of other sensory struggles.

But it's been one that I've dealt with for my entire life and a lot of people don't know the depth at which auditory processing disorder and struggles can affect just how you learn because how do we learn how to organize everything? Someone tells us. Right. You're getting faulty instructions told to you because your brain can't interpret the auditory correctly.

You don't have correct instructions on how to organize things. So people who have a larger struggle with auditory processing wind up having problems with organization, having struggles with understanding directions at a much deeper level than people necessarily expect. Cause we have to learn it somewhere and we didn't have a good system to learn it.

Especially like public school systems where it's all like lecture based basically that would be really hard probably for somebody with auditory processing issues.

Absolutely, depending on the environment that you're in a small classroom with only a few people, not too bad necessarily, but like a large lecture hall, a hundred people or so, oh yeah, like any amount of people who are just doing their own thing, especially in the day of keyboards, where everyone's typing and keyboards are not always quiet, that's just a constant background.

It does look different for different people with auditory processing, some people hear all sounds at the same time, and then their brain has to take that extra buffer time to separate out the different layers. But once they do, they're able to remember everything that was said, and everything that went on in the background.

Okay. Which is, it just takes a little bit of time. My version, unfortunately, is everything gets, cancels itself out. Oh, okay. So if there's anything I'm attending to at the same time, I may be able to respond in the moment, but the moment the conversation's done, I have no idea what was said. All other sound blotted out the memory of whatever was said to me.

Okay, do you remember the other sounds? To know you just don't remember anything. Okay. Yeah.

Nope. It's I remember there was something going on and I might be able to give you the gist of it, but if you're like, so what happened on the show or did you hear what I just said? Not if you give me any amount of time between when you send it and when you ask.

Okay. Gotcha. And I've, I know that like some people with their auditory processing, they almost have an automatic what? And it's not because they didn't hear the thing, it's because their brain does that because they need the time to sit with it and sort through that information. It sounds like your brain, like even that time, it's not coming back.

It depends on the situation. If it's just that there was a lot of information coming in all at once from one source. So it's say there's a lecture or something where someone's just going on, but there's nothing in the background. I have a running buffer that I just have to catch up on. And so it's something I can do, like if I'm writing notes or something like that, as long as new stuff isn't being added, I can keep that running buffer going and just keep transcribing.

But if something new comes in, I lose the entire buffer. It just gets wiped. And so the what does happen. Unless there's other inputs simultaneously, especially if it has equal relevance. So it's if it's at the same volume, if it's at the same pitch, or if it has, it's a new material, it's gonna glom onto my brain really easy.

Yeah. So it wipes it.

Yeah. What has happened for you to be able to adapt or learn how to take care of yourself in that way? Like you said, you can take notes, and that helps. Is that something that you just learned over time was helpful for you to catch up?

Yep, uh, taking notes as fast as I can. So my handwriting is horrible, but as long as it's enough that I can write it down, I can usually jog something.

Looking into other assistive devices, like recording lectures and things. I also had a pen that would record audio while I wrote and it would recognize where it was on the page. So I could touch the notes I'd written and it would start playing the audio from that section. So if I just drew a line saying I got lost, I could tap that later on Start the recording again, and then write more.

Oh, cool.

So, I found ways in which to accommodate it. And obviously, lower background noise locations. Figuring out okay, this is what I have to do under these circumstances. If someone talks facing away from me, chances are I'm not going to understand what you said at all.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the way that I notice mine, too, is, Yeah, if you're, if I can't see your lips, I'm not going to get it.

Yeah.

Yeah it's trial and error mostly, and unfortunately a lot of what can be done in the medical field, like what's prescribed for auditory processing struggles, is it's just things like sit closer to the front of the class, take lots of notes, record lectures if possible, minimize distractions.

Okay, but that only helps if I can control the environment. Exactly. If I'm just at the store or something. I can't tell everyone around me, Hey, I need you to be quiet while I listen to this.

Right. Right. Do you think that sometimes just knowing that, Oh, this is what's going on, Can be helpful just to not feel like, Oh, I'm broken, or like, Why is everyone else having an easy time with this?

Absolutely. And it's, I've found it's also really helpful for people who don't also have that struggle, whether it's just, their neurodivergence doesn't have that auditory processing component or if they're neurotypical, having that explanation of it's not that this person can't pay attention or it's not that they, I don't matter.

That's a very common one is I'm not important enough to listen to.

Oh, okay.

You are, but I can't control it. But having them have that explanation means that. They understand it's not this personal thing. It's not, it doesn't have anything to do with you as an individual. It's that I have something going wrong between my ears and my brain and I don't have any control of it.

So people become, usually, more understanding and accepting of working with you and accommodating and understanding the what immediately after just means you need a second to process. It doesn't mean that you weren't listening for the whole conversation.

Yeah, right.

And yeah, it does make me as a person feel better.

better because like I can sing along to a song while it's playing but if you ask me what are the words I have no idea.

Yeah.

Even though it's just singing along to it. I have no clue.

Right. Well, it started to make a lot more sense to me too, because I've always had trouble when someone's Oh, I'm just going to give you these quick directions.

You don't need to write it down. It's only four things. And my brain's ah, too much. And I used to be a server and I'd have, colleagues that were like, I remember everything. And I felt so dumb because I was like, I have to write it down or it's out. Yeah. It makes more sense now. It's Oh, that's just not how I process information the best.

I have to write it and see it.

Right. Yeah. And knowing that. Oh, go ahead.

Oh, I was just going to say one of the things that because obviously going through the diagnostic criteria and things, you look at that, you're like, Oh, God, it's like you mentioned, Michelle, it's Okay, a lot of this is actually reading accurate.

One of them is that immediately upon direction completion from someone, whether it's professor or at work or something, you immediately read back the directions, you have to go seek that clarification, even if you were taking notes during. Right. So a lot of us, it's do you find yourself going to seek clarification on directions you just received?

Yep, because I have no idea if I wrote it correct or not. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, and that seems like a good way to reassure yourself that you really understood what was being said, too, so then you don't have that second guessing or self consciousness that could come with, knowing that this is something that you have a struggle with and then wondering if the other person is, going to get irritated with you or anything like that, then at least you've got as much clarification as you could possibly receive.

Exactly.

I could imagine people that have different processing speeds, too. Some of us that are neurodivergent, especially, process information slower, really could add to some of the struggles if you're already, maybe processing it differently.

It absolutely can. And where I've actually run into the problem is being around other people who are neurodivergent and have a faster processing speed.

So it's, uh, like one of the people I'm around all the time. They watch every single TikTok and Instagram video at least two times speed, if not faster. Wow. And they're able to take it in just fine. I have no idea what is happening during that entire interchange. And so they'll be able to send me.

Three videos before I finish the first one that they sent me. I can't keep up. I'm sorry I would love this at 0. 75 speed. That'd be great for me But it just turns into chatter because my brain may be able to think fast enough on its own, but it's not Translating the auditory part that it can't do as fast.

Yeah, I think that's a big part right there is that like the translation that happens, and that happens with a lot of different neurodivergences is just us having to translate it like it is a whole different language that we're not familiar with and trying to make it most familiar for, people.

It's like whether that be in a different way of like verbally saying it to yourself in your brain or making it visual So you can imagine things in pictures more or whatever that looks like. Yeah, got to translate it for your language

Yeah. And I'm very much like your friend where I get bored. I need that stimulation.

And so I'm always, if I'm going to watch a video, not like Instagram usually, but YouTube, when I'm learning something, double time speed, audio books, double time. Like I cannot sit with excruciating boredom of the extra second. So it's interesting how you can have a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and it would, Makes sense, too, if you're in a partnership or you're around friends that have, different processing speeds, just to have that knowledge of, oh, when we're having a conversation, I might be moving at this speed and you might need some time to catch up and that's okay.

One of my partners is actually the one I mentioned earlier where they can separate things out. So just sitting on the couch, watching a show that they wanted me to share, and then they're telling me about their day. I both don't know what happened on the show you wanted to share with me, and I have no idea what you just told me about your day.

But they can handle it, they just need a second after each of my responses to separate it out themselves, and then they can just go right back into it. But I'm like, I'm either going to be able to take in the show you want me to, Or I can listen to you. I can't do both. I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm starting to understand why my partner gets so frustrated when I'm talking about something.

And then I totally segway to be like, So this dog happened! And they're like, wait. This dog happened? And it's always like this, There was a dog, and it was a pink life jacket, and it was a pug, and it's so, And you need to know right this second. I cannot wait. And my partner gets so frustrated. frustrated and that was totally why because their brain is processing and then they're like, wait, I'm not tracking.

Why are you talking about a dog? It's not part of the story.

If I don't, if I'm constantly verifying, am I hearing you correctly? Am I understanding this correctly? I'm constantly rechecking what you're saying. An immediate segue like that. I'm just stuck. Wait,

Does this

have any connection to what I just heard?

Did I mishear something or are we on an entirely new conversation?

Yeah.

Okay, but if I didn't have a chance to finish processing what happened first before the subject change, if you ask me, okay, sorry about the distraction. Let's go back to where we were.

It's one big run on sentence. Right. Yep.

Right. Does, do you know anything about like how misophonia plays into that? Like when people are really like affected by a certain sound where it's it sicks them out or it like just creeps them out in some way. And auditory processing it's similar.

So it's whereas the auditory processing is mostly that translation from the auditory input into Ability to understand the information encoded or as the misophonia is like the information being taken in is distressing of one kind or another it can, unfortunately, if you also have auditory processing, it can wipe whatever was in that buffer that you're trying to like process and catch up on that short term memory block that you're like, okay, I've got this floating 60 seconds that I'm catching up on.

And then. Misophonia hits and all of a sudden it's well, that's gone. Like I'll have tinnitus every so often pop in just at a ringing. All thought stops.

Yeah. I've heard of people where it's like a chewing sound and then it's I can't think of anything but this chewing sound now.

Exactly. Just brain just blanks it.

Yeah, I get really angry when I hear this is so bizarre But it's the sound of like liquid being poured into a cup, which is all on the radio They'll be like this delicious beverage and I can't handle it sounded like it my

partner gets weird about like chips like and I love crunching chips, I love the feel of Crunching on the chip and he's can you shut up?

Stop crunching that loud. And I'm like, I can't like that would ruin my whole experience of these chips. If I quiet it down, I have to do it loud.

We should get together and just have a crunchy chip party. Cause my partner does not like when I'm crunching and apparently everything I love is crunchy, like a baby carrot and chips.

And I could probably make a gummy bear crunchy, honestly.

Well, Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing this great information that you have on auditory processing. If anyone wants to learn more about Rowan, we're going to put their information down below and you can check out their profile.

Absolutely. It was a pleasure to join you here.

Yeah. Thanks for coming.

 you can head over to our website, keep it sparkly. com to see. Sign up for our newsletter. And we just want to remind you that what we're talking about in this podcast is just for informational purposes only.

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